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1.29.2016

Iliad: Week Three Discussion (Book 3)

Book Three: Events and Observations

- Encouraged by his dream, Agamemnon lines up his army, and Troy follows suit

-Hector accuses Paris of starting the war. Paris defends himself, but to placate him, offers to challenge the Greeks to a duel

-A challenge is made, and Menelaus accepts. Both sides take an oath that whoever wins get Helen, and then will leave each other alone in peace.

-Helen, notified by the gods, comes out to watch the duel between her past and current husbands. Homer uses this as a chance to give the Trojans’ views of the Greeks as Helen identifies the Greek warriors for Priam.

-Helen blames herself for the upcoming battle, and expresses regret that she ever left Menelaus.

-The duel begins, and Menelaus is winning. Just as he is about to kill Paris, Aphrodite intervenes and whisks Paris away to safety.

-Aphrodite tries to get Helen to go to Paris. Helen initially refuses, calling him a coward, but Aphrodite uses her power to make Helen fall back in love with him.

-Confused by Paris’ vanishing act, the two armies nonetheless declare Menelaus victor. He is to take Helen back to Greece, and the war will be over.

-Notable Quotation

“Let any parties to this oath who first

calamitously break it have their brains

decanted like these wine-drops on the ground-

they and their children; let their wives be slaves” Fitzgerald, Book 3, lines 357-360


Questions to think about:

-Homer describes the two armies as they prepare for battle. What are the differences between their behavior, and what might this represent?

- Who is/are the villain(s) here? Who is/are the victim(s)?

- Why might Homer split his narrative view between the three groups (gods, Greeks, Trojans)?




6 comments:

Fiona said...

So much to discuss!

1. First, hearkening back to last week's discussion about why Agamemnon would have been so foolish as to "test" the Greeks by suggesting they go home: I think I've got it! Maybe...he wasn't being stupid. He was sincere, in giving the Greeks one last chance to back out. He doesn't trust the dream! And rightly so. But since Odysseus rallied everyone back, he now has to play out his role.


2. Paris/Alexandros is usually thought of as a weakling and most Trojans resent him. But..he did volunteer to fight Menelaos, despite his fear of the man. I have sympathy for this guy: he was asked to judge a goddesses' beauty contest; there was no way that could go well. He has no choice but to be Aphrodite's pawn now.

3. Helen. If she ever had any affection and passion for Paris, she has no use for him by this point. She's miserable about her role in all this, but again, no choice but to be a pawn. I wonder if this is a difference in translation? In my version it didn't seem like Aphrodite made her fall back in love with Paris, rather she was forced into his bedroom under threat by the goddess (who, I realized, is also her half-sister). It was quite disturbing.

4. Who are the villains? Who are the victims?
The victims are everyone, including the poor little lambs who were sacrificed to supposedly sanctify an oath that the gods had no interest in seeing kept. No-one is being portrayed as villains, but to me it's the gods! They caused the war, and they keep it going for their own petty interests. No wonder the two sides have been at stalemate for nine years; whenever one side starts to win, a god will step in to help their favorites. Yet Homer has to depict the gods with respect and majesty.

Emma said...

1. So you think if Odyesseus hadn't stepped in, Agamenon would have just allowed the Greeks to leave? What's the evidence you're drawing on for that? (Wow, that sounded like a teacher, sorry!) I'm truly curious though. I have never read it that way, and I always love finding new ways to look at texts.

2. Paris is a decent warrior. In other myths he is abandoned as a child because Hecuba (queen of Troy) has a dream that he will be Troy's downfall and is found and raised by shepherds. He is recognized as a prince because of his strength in contests held during a festival in Troy. But in his own words, given a choice, he'd rather be a lover than a fighter.

3. I agree with you. "Make her fall in love" was much too weak a description. I'm afraid I'm used to editing myths for my usual audience of middle school students (Zeus falls in a lot, which always mysteriously results in a baby being born). The scene is frightening. In my translation, Helen adress Aphrodite as "Immortal maddness" followed by the line "she called the goddess by her true name". I've always thought that was fitting. Aphrodite is a horribly powerful god. Even the other gods are in her power.

4. I would even argue that Zeus's comment to the goddesses supports the idea of the gods as villains. Even in the background of the war, the whole thing started because of an argument among the gods. I love the idea of Homer trying to avoid talking bad about the gods. It makes reading the poem almost a game of seeing where Homer draws the line.

5. Sorry for typos. Typed this on my tablet.

Fiona said...

re 1. Well, it's just a theory. I have to admit there's no direct
evidence in the text. Actually, there's evidence against it, in that
Agamemnon does tell the other leaders about his dream and says "Let's
marshall the Archaians". But then he says "But first I will test them,
as it's the right thing to do...". Why is it the right thing to do? It's
very puzzling, as you pointed out. That he has some doubts about the
veracity of the dream, is the only logical explanation I can see. After 9
years of the gods playing mind games with the humans as pawns in this
war, it would make sense for Agamemnon and the rest to be wary. Perhaps,
it is not the men he is testing, but the gods! High stakes. Would they
allow the Greeks to leave, at this point? The answer is No.

Emma said...

That's really cool! You're right. It doesn't make sense about testing the men. So is he testing the gods? I wonder if there isn't some grammar things in Greek that would point one way or the other. Perhaps when I'm not feeling so lazy I'll go investigate that :)

Crystal Peebles said...

Regarding Aphrodite, I don't understand her motivation for alluring Helen back to Paris (seemingly against her will and better judgment). In fact, I'm having difficultly sorting out the god's motivations for action and inaction. Are the three goddesses (Hera, Aphrodite, Athena) mostly motivated by the outcome of the beauty contest?

Emma said...

I do think the beauty contest is a big part of it. It is a question of pride and power. What is most important to mortals? Victory? Power? Love? Paris chose love. Aphrodite's power IS love. She has to maintain. Helen leaving Paris challenges that power and weakens Aphrodite's influence.